Targus PA415U DEFCON Worksurface Lock
 
List Price: $39.99

Our Price: $11.89

You Save: $28.10 (70%)

 

Product Description

The Targus Defcon Worksurface Lock allows users to maintain cable management and security on the desktop. It incorporates a cable lock down security feature into a cable management device for notebook safety and desktop tidiness. The PA415U fits in any existing 2.5" inch grommet on the desktop work surface. PRODUCT FEATURES: Security and Cable Management at your desk; Easily installed into home or office desk/workstation; Connects your security device to the integrated cable inside the PA415U to lock notebook to worksurface.

Features:
  • See How It Works Download The Product Demo (720Kb, .Avi)
  • Security and Cable Management At Your Desk
  • Easily Installed Into Home or Office Desk/Workstation
  • Connect Your Security Device to The Integrated Cable Inside The Pa415U to Lock Notebook to Worksurface
Customer Reviews:
  • Lock down laptop
    Bought this for my daughter's laptop at college. It works well and she loves it. Easy to set-up....more info
  • DO NOT BUY!!! LOCK CHANGES COMBOS!!!
    I am a college student and recently bought this lock for computer security. My sister, who is also in college, bought one as well. Both of us have now had to saw this lock off our computers because it has suddenly changed the combination and became locked on my computer, keeping me from taking it anywhere. The only solution Targus gives is to "try every possible combination." There are 10,000 possible combos. This is an extremely terrible product, do not buy it....more info
  • Very disappointed
    I purchased this product (from a different retailer) in June 2008. The combination that I set worked fine a few times and then suddenly stopped being recognized by the lock. I was able to use the lock less than ten times before it failed. I owned it for less than one month before the cable lock got stuck in my notebook computer; the lock is still stuck in there now.

    Just so there will be no confusion on the product... Here is some information from the original packaging: "NOTEBOOK SECURITY Defcon CL combo cable lock"..."Targus". In the lower left corner is the model number PA410U....more info
  • Worst lock EVER
    This lock is the worst lock ever made, the lock resets itself so you cannot unlock it. To remove the lock you have to cut the wire (super easy) and saw the lock off. In the process damaging my computer. This product should be taken off the market....more info
  • Unfortunately, all these bad reviews are true...
    I had the same problem - lock "magically" reset itself and the combination I had been using for 1 year no longer worked. Fortunately, I was able to cut it off in 3 minutes with a hacksaw. Unfortunately, I am out $10 for the hacksaw and $30 for the lock. Here are the instructions for cutting the lock off that Targus doesn't post on the website, but will email to you:

    Obtain a hacksaw from a hardware store or similar location. Make sure that it has a high-speed metal cutting blade. After stabilizing the tail of the DEFCON CL in a vise, saw through the head. Do not try to saw the teeth of the DEFCON CL, it is much easier to begin sawing at the gap next to the cable attachment ring. After sawing all the way through, you will be able to take apart DEFCON CL and remove it from the notebook. This should take an average of 10 minutes. ...more info
  • WARNING! This lock can be maliciously reset!
    This and similar models are still for sale in stores, I can't believe it!
    I've discovered how to purposely scramble the combo from a locked state, so I can believe it would randomly change its combo as well.
    Targus tech support said they'd pass on the info to HQ but didn't care to take my contact info.
    Unfortunately their new Ultra Max apparently has the same lousy lock design.
    I would not buy a combo lock from them until they make fundamental changes.
    ...more info
  • Lock autonomously decided "You didn't want that combination, anyway."
    I used this lock A-OK for years. On Saturday 2008/09/27 I used it fine twice. When I wanted to unlock my notebook computer from the desk the following Monday, the lock acted as if I entered the wrong combination. I'm baffled. Now I have to cut it off. Will my notebook computer ever be rid of the lock dangling from the side? Now I'll look like a computer thief. ...more info
  • Does not work
    Bought one today to use on my new HP Laptop. It does not work. The 2 pawls will not spring out far enough to engage so you can pull it right off. If it does barely engage it still has not sprung out so you cannot turn the number dials to another setting....more info
  • Krap with a capital "K"
    My boyfriend has been using this lock daily for the past 4 months to secure his laptop at work. Today it decided that the combination he had set was inadequate, so it reset itself. Now we cannot get his laptop off his desk, which defeats the purpose of having a portable computer. We strongly suggest buying a lock that unlocks via a key. Do not purchase this lock....more info
  • laptop lock with combo changes on its own
    Targus laptop lock with combo lock can change combonation on its own. I am in a dorm and decided to keep my laptop locked while I was not in my room. One day I could not get the combo to work. When I called Targus customer service they told me sometimes the combo slips on its own that I needed to try combos with surrounding numbers to the combo I had set weeks ago. It took hours of work, but after many tries found that the last combo digit had changed by one number drop. I am now going to purchase a lock with keys-never again will I use the combo lock....more info
  • horrible! got stuck with correct combo
    Do not get this, it got stuck in my new macbook pro...and the combination was correct! Would not come out. Look elsewear. ...more info
  • There is a newer model than the one in the photo: It's Great!
    I travel with my notebook in my backpack. I have had three of these things. You have to read the instructions to set the combination correctly!
    They all have worked well and they NEVER have changed the combination on me spontaneously!
    The newer model has the same features but uses AAA bats and not a 9V which the old one used. It is thiner than the old model also. I like the blinking red light when ever I arm it. I run the cable through my zipper on my backpack and leave in strapped to the desk or chair in my hotel room. It creates a shrill LOUD alarm (if you set it for this feature) when the unit is moved. There are two sensitivities. You can set it to only alarm if the cable is cut. Yes you can cut the cable with a good set of wire cutters...so it would not stop anyone determined to take your notebook from you and had strong intentions to do so. It will stop someone from just grabbing it and trying to run.
    I also really like the little gadget in the photo...(lower right hand corner of photo) it fits into the security hole of my notebook very snugly. The cable of the Defcon can go through the hole of this gadget and you can just lay it next to your notebook and it will start to "scream" as soon as the notebook is moved (it does give you a ~15 second warning before "screaming" with a loud CHIRP sound, so you can disarm it. Go to Targus website and check it out. I don't work for them. I do believe they sell a quality little alarm. It is not Fort Knox, it is a lot better than nothing. Blinking light and siren deters the common dumb criminal (not on drugs or really crazy)from taking your computer. It's should be just one of a series of methods you have to secure your notebook, not the only one.
    It's nice for travel. You can even hang the thing on a door knob and know if someone opens the door. It's a motion alarm with a blinking red light. The number of blinks tells you how it is armed. I recommend it. ...more info
  • Mixed UP Reviews - Try This.
    Not one single review here is about the actual item for sale. When I clicked on the product reviews for this item. The item is the Targus PA460U DEFCON Authenticator - Black [Electronics] Which in fact has nothing to do with combination locks, cable locks, Or for that matter any kind of locking device other than a programed security device which locks down your computer so no one can enter your files without you being present. Unless of course they have the same finger print as you. It can also work for more than on computer at a time if for save you have two linked together in your network and prefer you children (example) or whomever to have acess to your computer when you are not present. All I can say is that mine works great and I very happy I have one....more info
  • Lock jammed, so I had to break it off
    I just finished breaking this lock off my laptop because it somehow jammed. My laptop was securely locked in my hotel room, keeping even a person with the combination from removing it. After a couple of quick blows with a ratchet handle, the lock itself broke apart. Once I took the end off the lock, it popped right off the laptop. See my photos above of the smashed lock.

    When I bought this, I joked to my buddy that it would now take a thief 30 seconds longer to steal my laptop. If only I had realized how right I was. The only reason I spent half an hour trying to remove it was because I was trying to save the lock. I'll call the manufacturer to ask for a refund tomorrow. If they don't give me one, I'll take it back to Staples, where I bought this just six weeks ago....more info
  • Has anyone tried to simply break it off ??
    I bought a SIMILAR lock about 2 years ago. (It MAY have been this exact lock... it had 4 digit combo... and the name is very familiar... i just cannot say for sure) I was curious about whether a thief attempting to break it would succeed and also damage the slot. I gave it a quick twisting/bending motion with, i would say, less than 75% of my strength. I broke right off without damaging the slot !! It took 1 second. I M fairly strong... but c'mon! I am desperate for a real security solution but now have no confidence in this type of lock... unless someone can enlighten me as to how strong this item really is. Furthermore, most people (except the ones who actually cut the lock or the cable) here merely speculate that it's strong. I was in a hardware store looking at a (much thicker) 3/16th" galvanized twisted steel security cable. The workers there seemed to disagree on how EZ it would be to cut the cable with a simple pliers-like tool. The opinions ranged from "very easy" to fairly difficult. Not one thought very difficult. ...more info
  • Missing Features that are present in cheaper locks
    I'm using the cable for about a month now and haven't encountered (yet?) the dreaded "sudden change of lock combination" so many people here encountered. Yet, I am missing a feature that I had in a cheap clone lock looking almost similar to the Targus Defcon CL. See the black bulk that closes the cable loop ? On the clone it was actually a metalic disk with a hole (similar to the one you find in the laptop). This allows you to lock the cable to itself when going away with the laptop. You might think noone would steal a lock cable because they don't know the combination and would be useless, but it happens (especially because they get a better chance to steal your laptop later on). This forces you every time you need to walk away with your own laptop to have to carry the cable lock with you. ...more info
  • Heed the warnings!
    I set the new combination. It worked fine twice. The third time it got stuck in my ibook. I had to cut it off. Do not buy this lock.
    ...more info
  • Do Not Buy!
    Heed the warnings from the reviewers that indicated "mysterious combination changes", especially if you own an Apple laptop! I bought this for my son to use in college and after one week of use he called to tell me that the combination no longer worked!!!!...more info
  • Do not buy
    I just purchased the lock recently. The lock is very hard to put on and take off. Even with the right combination on you have to pull a bit hard at the cable. Which makes it pretty hard to take off. The price of the lock is cheap, but you are better off buying a more expensive one. ...more info
  • Lock and secure
    For users that travels a lot 100% recomended most cases when you need leave your notebook in some conference room or room hotel....more info
  • Don't Buy "d
    on Jan.6,2008 I bought my son a "Defcon CL" combo cable lock. I brought it home ,picked a combination and tried it 3 times and it worked all 3 times!! I then went and put it on my son's computer and guess what? I can't get it off. I guess it changed the combination on it's own. WONDERFUL!!!!
    I then read all the wonderful reviews about this lock. I hope there are people who will read this before they buy....more info
  • Great video lock
    This lock was one of my purchases to go along with my new computer. I live in a dorm room and kids now-a-days cant be trusted. This lock works great, locks into a provided VGA thru cable. The only way they will steal this is by cutting the cable with a strong pair of clippers or ripping out my video port, or if they know the combo. Otherwise great lock, I feel sure that they wont be able to walk out with my computer....more info
  • Dont buy
    Everything that happened to other people happened to me. I have an Ibook, used the lock for about two months total. I bought it last year and used it for the month of October before I started to just lock my office. During that month I never set the lock to any combo. It remained at the 0-0-0-0. I used it for one month this year and it is already broken. I was having trouble with it for about two weeks before it final broke. That brings by total time used to six weeks of normal use. I would not recommend this product to anyone and if I was able to get te lock out of my comp I would not even sell it or give it away b/c it is worthless. [...] I would give this item 0 stars if it were possible....more info
  • Never trust this product.
    I bought this product less than a year ago. 2 days ago, I locked my laptop and tried to unlock it. But I couldn't. It was somehow messed up and the combination did not work. I HAD TO CUT IT!!! I don't know how it got messed up but I'm sure that it was not study enough to last long....more info
  • Have an iBook? Don't buy this lock!
    I posted a review two weeks ago, but it hasn't appeared, so I'm trying again...I bought this lock two years ago. It has always been difficult to remove. (Note: despite what some other reviewers seem to think, it does NOT have a motion detector - that's a different lock.) Recently, the lock decided to remain firmly inside my iBook, despite my efforts to remove it. After a fruitless call to Targus's customer support, I finally got it out. That took over 30 minutes of struggle. My next step was going to be purchasing a hack saw. Apparently, the Targus lock is not a good fit for iBooks. I'm going to send mine back and demand compensation. If you own an iBook, I strongly suggest you buy a lock made by someone other than Targus....more info
  • Targus PA400U DEFCON 1 Ultra Notebook Computer Security System
    I had this for approximately 2 years. It worked fine for couple of months but suddenely started to activate the alarm without any disturbances. One day I left my laptop attached the alarm in my office for about half an hour. During this period, the alarm was activated and I was embarrased to face my office workers. This is without increasing the sensitivity of the alarm. I sent it back to Targus and they were nice enough to give me a new alarm. But after several months, it started the same problem.
    So, now I am afraid to use this security system with my laptop. But I did not face problems like changing the combination by its own. You can use it without the alarm activation (i.e: without batteries) but the cable is so thin, it is not recommended to protect any valubles....more info
  • Lock changes combination by itself - Do not buy
    I have been using this lock for a few months without changing the combination. Suddenly I could no longer open it as it appears that the lock has changed its combination by itself.

    I called engineering in the hotel I was staying in to help me. It took them less than a minute to cut the cable with ordinary pliers.
    ...more info
  • Once it's on it may never come off.
    While I don't have any evidence to refute the package claim that it "attaches to any notebook", once attached to my son's computer it was almost impossible to remove. It took 10 minutes to get it off and we were pulling so hard I thought we would damage the computer. We will be returning it. Not recommended....more info
  • Combination mysteriously changed
    I had been using the lock for my laptop for the past 4 months without any trouble. All of a sudden, today, as I went to pick up the lock, which had been left untouched in the open position overnight with my combination in it, it decided to change combinations by itself. So it was in the locked position but the combination is still the one I had set. I tried so many combinations 'around' mine but obviously there are so many different possibilites. The fact that I even have to try to think of what combination my lock decided to change itself to today makes this a lock I can't rely on!...more info
  • Changing Combos
    I am a student living in a dorm situation and so wanted some basic protection for my lap top computer. I purchased the defcon cl because it was inexpensive, widely availible, and easy to use. Unfortunately, it has one major drawback, occasionally it decides to change the number combinationss which unlock it. I went to the company website and they suggested trying the numbers immediately around the combination and if that failed trying all the number combinations possible (there are 10,000). Several hours, one blister, and 1787 combinations later, I got frustrated and used a jewelers saw to cut through the connection to my computer (this solution took only five minutes). I would not suggest this lock to anyone who lacks the patience to try trial and error experimentation until they reach the correct combination, nor anyone attending a school with a metalsmithing program....more info
  • Exactly same as the description
    This is the best lock you can find for laptops, but I am still not very confident with it. It looks flimpsy but better than others....more info
  • A better mousetrap
    This does exactly what it is supposed to do. It is light, easy to pack, easy to use, and probably difficult to crack.

    (Though would-be PC pilferers haven't tried taking a hacksaw to my cable lock so I cannot comment as to its ability to withstand saws, blow-torches, or any other criminal's tool.)

    Other reviewers baffled me as mine is as described by Amazon. There is neither an alarm nor batteries. Why bother with an alarm if the PC is locked with steel cable? Seems like overkill?...more info
  • Does as advertised
    This thing does what it is supposed to an nothing more. I don't feel extremely safe leaving it unwatched even with this on, but it certainly makes my laptop less appealing to steal. If someone really wants you're notebook, this thing will only slow them down. So don't swear by it. I feel this item is slightly overpriced, but so are all laptop locks. No real problems with this item, just nothing great either. ...more info
  • Not For Apple ibook
    DO NOT BUY IF YOU HAVE AN iBOOK!! It slides in easily, but it is almost impossible to get out. I had to call their support line and they told me to apply pressure in the upper left corner (lower right corner if the lock is upside down). Even after doing that, it took me 10 minutes before I finally got it out. When I called, the guy asked me if I had an ibook before anything else. He then told me that they are tight in the ibooks and people have trouble getting them out. It is not worth the struggle if you have an ibook. I highly do not recommend this product for apple ibooks....more info
  • Sturdy and User-Friendly Notebook Lock; Highly Recommend
    Please note that this review is for: "Targus PA410U DEFCON CL Notebook Computer Cable Lock." It is a four-digit combination cable lock and does not use a key or have an alarm (as some of the other reviews seem to suggest).

    Great Aspects:

    This Targus Notebook Lock does its job well and is relatively small and light. There are 10,000 possible combinations and an "anchor plate" is included to create a "secure object" if you are usually using your computer in an area without such stable objects. The 6' cable itself is pretty strong and would take quite some time to cut. The lock can swivel/pivot when locked into a notebook, making it easier to move the notebook and keeping the cable from getting entangled with itself or other things. Re-setting the combination is simple and the lock is very easy to install.

    Downside:

    Obviously, really determined thieves are going to be able to work thier way around the lock, either by destroying the computer's casing on the side the lock is attached (particularly for plastic-sided notebooks), guessing the combination, destroying the secure object, or cutting through the cable. Provided, most of these actions will take some time (and probably make considerable noise) but the lock is a deterent to theft, not an invincible bastion of security. Use a little common sense with your laptop and don't feel that the lock will save your computer from everything. The price of this lock isn't particularly cheap but it's probably worth the price.

    Summary:

    This notebook lock should satisfy the security needs of almost all notebook users. The price isn't excellent but, then again, it's also a very good lock and most people probably wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for a lock that will actually work well. This is about as good as it gets for general notebook locks.
    Highly Recommend....more info
  • VG if u want monitoring help, poor as a complete 'guardian'
    Let me begin by saying that I don't do many product reviews at all, but I felt after buying and trying this product, I should. Mainly because it would suffice for some and not for others. I feel that's when product reviews are most important. Since there are only 5 reviews up to this time, I'll consolidate those and annotate some comments on top as well.

    Pros:
    1. Manageable (5"x2"x1.5" and doesn't weigh alot)
    2. Compatible with many if not all recent laptops
    3. Very easy to lock and unlock, especially if you leave the dial just a few digits away from your combination
    4. While the motion-sensing warning beeps are distinct, they are by no means 110dB like what this other user mentioned, so they wouldn't bother somebody across a large room. If a normal conversation is 60dB, these warning chirps are around 45dB, and VERY brief at that.
    5. There are 4 digits to the combination, which means a full 10000 combinations. The '999' combinations the other user mentioned relates to a previous model, not the PA400U.
    6. One user mentioned that there was a 110db beep to let him know the device is on. That's b.s. There are a couple chirps, and then a red 'status' LED blinks to let you know the alarm is activated.
    7. The alarm is distinctly louder than the chirps, so people around should figure out that it's an alarm.
    8. Alarm goes off if cable is cut.
    9. Movement of the device sets off 'warning chirps' and there is a red LED light that gives thieves the correct idea that it's an alarm. (In fact, because the LED flashes if the device is locked even if the alarm itself is not set, it's feasible to place the device just on top of the computer, that alone maybe deterring a couple would-be thieves.)
    10. The 'warning chirps', albeit without a melody (it's monotone), are no more irritating to others than a cell phone.

    Cons:
    1. Hypersensitive to motion, so you can't really use it outside if it's windy, it'll almost surely go off. In fact, the user who said that its own beep causes the alarm to go off, I find that to be hyperbole. But to give an idea how sensitive it can be, there are times when I have set it on my desk with alarm activated, six inches away from the keyboard -- when I press the 'backspace' key on my keyboard hard enough, the warning chirps can go off. (Incidentally, to give an idea what sets off the warning chirps, when I shake the device, I can hear what sounds like a thin metal disk that is being balanced horizontally when you lay the device flat. When you move the device, the disk is disturbed from its equilibrium position, and that's what sets off the warning chirps. That's also why some users may have mentioned that it seems so hypersensitive: after I set the alarm, and set the device on the table, the disk inside is still vibrating a bit, so typically there is some 2-4 seconds of chirping immediately after you place the device on the flat surface.)
    2. As much as the manufacturer believes that it is 105dB, and as far as information I gleaned from the internet suggests that a lawnmower is 90dB, this device is nowhere near 105dB -- nobody will blink twice if you were in a noisy bar. If a normal conversation is 60dB and a lawnmower is 90dB, the alarm on this thing is perhaps 70-75dB.
    3. The warning chirps would likely bother a stranger at the next seat, or in a library.

    Note on who should buy:
    First off, the user that said his laptop was stolen, I believe it, especially if your laptop case is made out of a flimsy plastic like my early-model Dell Inspiron is, a thief could easily use his feet as leverage and just rip it off. If I were in an unmonitored room with a 200 lb stranger, I definitely wouldn't leave the building for 30 minutes without taking the laptop with me. In that sense, I COMPLETELY disagree with the user who said he'd feel safe leaving his $3000 Vaio in the library for an hour while he grabs lunch.

    I completely agree, however, with the users who said it works as a deterrent. I believe it is a particularly effective deterrent if (a) there are other people in the room, because it does make a noticeable noise that would bring attention to the thief, and/or (b) you're in the room up to 100 feet away. If you're a guy like me that is super-cautious with his laptop, always looking over his back in a cafe that it's gone, this device is very effective. You set it, and then you can mingle with friends or acquiantances in the same room or within earshot without issue. (For example, with it, I have much less problem in cafes going on extended bathroom breaks and bringing my laptop with me to the bathroom drawing weird stares.) To be quite frank, I believe the best kind of places to use this would be a hotel lobby, an airport, and ESPECIALLY a cafe.

    VERDICT: In short, if you'd pay a premium for a device that genuinely looks like a laptop alarm (thus deterring thieves), and you'd pay for a moderately loud distinctive sound to tell you that somebody is attempting to take your laptop (like I would) or a sound loud enough where others nearby would likely notice the theft and be able to ID the bugger later, then this device is good. Otherwise, just get a standard cable combo lock if it's cheaper.

    Although one user said his uses a key, I bought my PA400U in June 2005, and it is strictly a combo lock.

    Tip to Targus:
    Provide a couple volume levels for the beeps...more info
  • Lock easily broken
    I just had a notebook stolen that was "locked" with this lock. The thief gave it a good yank, and the metal easily broke off. I suppose it may work as a deterrent, but don't fool yourself into thinking your computer can't be stolen. ...more info
  • Great Locking System
    I am very happy with my cable lock. Although it does not make your computer equal to Fort Knox, it will at the very least slow a would-be theif down. I can hang my 8lb laptop off of it, and bounce it up and down with the cable, and it holds firm (trial conducted over my bed, a heavily padded surface). I like how the cable swivels around the actual lock to avoid the cable kinking, and becoming cumbersome. I also like the fact that it is a key operated system. Although combinations are quicker, they can be hacked in about 5 minutes of trying, and slipping a key in the lock and giving a quick turn can't be any simpler. Just remember to keep one key in a safe place, and write the key serial number down somewhere so a replacement can be found. For the money, I don't think there is a better security option for notebook computers, unless you spend the ... on a doberman puppy, and train it to attack computer theifs. But that would be hard. Buy this lock system, and it could save you .......more info
  • Good product, but...
    Let me start by saying what I like about this device: it is relatively light, and works flawlessly both as security against and as a deterrent to anyone trying to walk off with your notebook. With this device, I feel safe leaving my $3000+ Sony Vaio sitting in the library for an hour while I go grab lunch. It takes 20 seconds to lock, and 20 seconds to unlock, and has been compatible with every notebook I've tried it on.

    That said, the device is not without its problems. Firstly, the device is HYPER-sensitive to motion. If one puts the device into motion-detection mode, it is very difficult to disarm (i.e. to rotate the combination dial) without setting off the alarm. What's worse yet is the 110db warning beep it lets out every time it detects even the slightest bit of motion, meaning that even if you are skilled enough not to set off the full alarm, you are going to have a rather embarassing time disarming it should be in any sort of quiet setting. In short, it is virtually impossible to use the motion detector feature in anywhere you might want it, like a library, since your neighbors will not likely be receptive to a series of 110db warning beeps. Another problem with the device is that there are only 1000 possible combinations. While this sounds like a petty complaint, it is significant -- if you plan to leave your notebook unattended for an hour or two, it is not difficult for your local sticky-fingers to run through all possible combinations before you get back. Let us hope no one is this daring, however. My final complaint about the device is a minor one -- I don't need a 110db beep to let me know the device is on.

    Basically, Targus could fix most of the problems by having two volume levels for various warning beeps; instead, though, we have to suffer through these things at the same ear-piercing volume as the alarm....more info

  • Too Sensitive to Motion
    Mine goes off with little or no motion. It almost seems that its own "beep" causes enough motion to make it "beep", which causes it to "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP"..... So I don't set it. The saving grace is that even if I don't set it, the alarm always goes off if the cable is cut. The thinness of the cable plus its retractability make it easier to travel with than the thick cables....more info
  • User from New Jersey
    This product is very compact and easy to use. You dont need to carry a lengthy cable. This also has motion sensor which is very useful especially in hotels, and airports. The only problem is that there are only 999 combinations of lock which could be easy to break....more info